Lisette’s Take: “I'm inspired by having conversations with people like her. Other than you being a fantastic author, she’s one of those writers that has an incredible generosity of spirit. It shows in how she supports other writers, during a book reading, she’s part of the audience, and cares deeply about those around her.” To hear all episodes and learn more about Lisette Nieves, visit Lisette-Nieves.com
Xochitl Gonzalez is the New York Times bestselling author of the award-winning novels Olga Dies Dreaming, Anita de Monte Laughs Last, and the highly anticipated Last Night in Brooklyn (out April 2026). She is a contributor to The Atlantic, where she was recognized as a 2023 Pulitzer Prize finalist in Commentary. A native Brooklynite and proud public school graduate, Gonzalez holds a BA from Brown University and an MFA from the Iowa Writers’ Workshop. “Last Night in Brooklyn” explores the lives of residents in a rapidly changing Brooklyn, specifically focusing on the "dark compromise of the American Dream," and the cost of gentrification in the early 2000s. Described as “a love letter to a place on the verge of great change,” it features a young woman finding her own path to independence.
Lisette Nieves: Hi, everyone. It's Lisette Nieves, and welcome to The Junction. I'm so excited today. Today we have Xochitl Gonzalez. You want to talk about a New York Times bestselling author and award-winning novelist, from Olga Dies Dreaming and Anita de Monte Laughs Last. She is about to have a new book, the highly anticipated Last Night in Brooklyn, which will be out later in April, and she's also one who's just brilliant on commentary, writing about class in The Atlantic. It will not be a dull conversation, and I'm so excited she's here with us. Welcome, Xochitl.
Xochitl Gonzalez: Oh. I'm so happy to be here with you. It's so weird hearing your bio like that, I think particularly because I did this later in life, it feels like a speed read through the last seven years.
Nieves: And it always, when you read, it's like, "Oh. That's so easy to read."
You're like, "Do you know how many years it took me to get through all that?" Right?
Gonzalez: Totally, totally, totally. Oh, it's so wonderful to be here with you, and I'm so happy that you're doing this and having these conversations.
Nieves: Yeah. Well, I'm inspired by having conversations with people like you. I actually, one of the things why people would want to know, why do I have people on, other than you being a fantastic author, is that you are one of those writers that has something called an incredible generosity of spirit, how you support other writers, how when you come to a reading, you are part of the audience, you care deeply about those around you. I just want to know, is that some way that you've always been, or are you modeling someone that you've always enjoyed seeing them do, or is this just a Xochitl we know and love?
Gonzalez: You know what's so interesting? I would say that's kind of my personality, but I didn't think it was strange, in the sense that I didn't realize when I kind of went into art making, I should say. I did it very consciously, because I'd had a couple of other careers, and I think that, if I'm being very honest, I really kind of went into it with a service work mentality. I had been in the hospitality industry for a long time, like in the luxury hospitality space.
Nieves: Absolutely. Former planner, wedding planner.
Gonzalez: Yes, yes. But I think that I kind of wanted to write my first book and write in general, because I really did feel that I wasn't seeing women like us and our experience, that now I'm even better able to articulate what it is, but this sort of thing of being raised in one cultural set of values, and then being part of a world that kind of values a different set of things, and how that creates this push and pull in tension and the people that you meet there and stuff. Really just, I knew so many women like us and so many people like us, but I really hadn't been seeing that perspective in fiction or in nonfiction, and so I felt like, then when I did the book, I was not so much writing it for me, as much as I felt like, "Gosh, it's frustrating that I never see us the way that I feel that we are."
Then, when I was kind of able to promote Olga and I was actually engaging with readers, because we had been really starved for a lot of this, I realized what an intimate conversation it was. I started to really see my career as being of service to bringing these perspectives out and of service of expanding that conversation with other writers, helping other writers get perspectives.
Also, I think some of that is helping other writers see a pathway to channeling their own voice and other artists to see a path, because I really think the great thing about art in general, and especially with writing, you can do it at any phase of your life. We put so much a prize on youth, I think, that we sometimes feel like, "Oh, just because you didn't do something right when you went to college or got out of college, that it's no longer accessible to you." I think that I realized so many people that grew up the way that we did, we needed to get through and set up a safety net for ourselves, just economically, financially-
Nieves: Yes.
Gonzalez: ... Within our own families. Then, suddenly you might be able to have the bandwidth to access that creative spirit and that creative thought, and so I do feel like that sense of generosity is really because I feel like I'm in conversation constantly with a bigger community. And so, I am always like, "What can I do to bring more people to the party? What can I do to make sure that I'm talking about the different, in the best way? Is it fiction? Is it journalism? Is it memoir?" which I'm working on now.
And I think also, what do we do to also help? I wish the system was more fair. I wish that everybody that wrote a great book always had the chance to make it a bestseller and get it in the hands of the right people. Unfortunately, that isn't always the case. Things work in very weird ways, and so whatever we can do to sort of help, and you've been so supportive with that with hosting, just recently, a book event for a bunch of Latina nonfiction writers, but I think that sometimes while we do those things, and it was a media event, is just to like, how do you use then your privilege and your power to expand that circle versus hoard it, right?
Nieves: Absolutely.
Gonzalez: Yeah, yeah. I'm always uncomfortable being the only of anything.
Nieves: No. I'm with you. I'm with you, and I really do feel that. One is sometimes two, and it might be gendered, but sometimes you'll see this, where people feign that they don't have power.
Gonzalez: Yes.
Nieves: It's almost as if that's a humble thing.
Gonzalez: Yes, that's right.
Nieves: And that drives me nuts. I hate that. I was like, "You actually have power."
Gonzalez: If I'm being very honest, it took me a few years to get comfortable with also just-
Nieves: Yeah, how to leverage that power.
Gonzalez: Yeah.
Nieves: Absolutely, sure.
Gonzalez: How to leverage that power and how to even just talk about it.
Nieves: Yes.
Gonzalez: As soon as I kind of got a bunch of opportunities, because Olga was very unusual and it was an unusual moment in time, in that coming off of American Dirt, there was a very big awareness that they had messed up and that there are authentic voices that were not getting looked at as an industry.
Nieves: That's right.
Gonzalez: And so, when Olga was ready to go out, it got a wild amount of attention. I should really send that author an edible arrangement or something, because it got a lot of attention, partly because I think that it shouldn't really start contrast to the criticisms of that book, in terms of feeling like this was like a genuine experience, and I think that people love that book, so I actually don't want to pick on that book. A lot of people love that book, but it was a moment, if that makes sense.
Nieves: No. I actually think it's an important moment, and I want to say this to the listeners too. I mean, it's important to understand American Dirt was one where it was a novel, but it was often done through, some people criticize it as a voyeuristic lens, right?
Gonzalez: Yes.
Nieves: Not an authentic voice, and that's important because we've seen this over and over and over again. Then, when you came out with Olga Dies Dreaming, it didn't just feel authentic, because oh my goodness, it felt full. I was thinking about that, because we say, what does authentic mean?
Gonzalez: What does that mean?
Nieves: Yeah, and when I'm thinking about when I'm reading or I'm like, "Oh, no. These are multi-textured, multidimensional characters, who I believe deeply in," and to me, that's a critical part of authenticity.
Gonzalez: I think that now, it's funny because this third book is coming out, and the reception so far has been, you never know until it's out, out, but it's been quite generous. I said to one of my best friends, I was like, I feel myself coming to another phase of this time, where I feel like I've shown everybody who I am, and now I can be softer in it, if that makes any sense. I think I'm excited for this other phase. I'm excited for what that can mean. I think that it's really been a journey to A, recognize like, oh, this is a bit of power, and B, not be embarrassed of that power. Then, I think it's like, how do I feel like wielding it and using it? And actually, I'll say like, there's no point in not being honest when you come onto with these things, but I think that in the beginning I was given a lot of opportunities through very traditional senses.
Nieves: Sure, yeah.
Gonzalez: I'm on a bunch of boards and some of them are better than others, and I think that it made me also-
Nieves: And you were trained in the Iowa Workshop, right?
Gonzalez: Yeah, and I think that now though, it's so interesting, because I am really interested in, what do we do? I think that I was kind of going the traditional path of like, "Oh. Let's make space and elbow more room for ourselves in these places," and now I'm actually starting to get less interested in that, and I'm more interested in, what does it look like when we make the party for ourselves?
Nieves: Yes.
Gonzalez: I think we talked about this at the event that we did with you, but part of the magic of the Bad Bunny thing at El Choli, in particular, even more than the Super Bowl, which was magnificent, but it was like, "I literally am not going to go and do this the way you want me to do this. I'm going to do this this way."
Nieves: That's right.
Gonzalez: And that is authentic power, right? That's authentic power.
Nieves: Yes, yes.
Gonzalez: And then, it created this space that people came, and then it reverberated around the world, and so I think that these first three books, for me, felt very much like in response to working in institutions and fighting. The spirit of them is about the fight, right?
Nieves: Yes.
Gonzalez: And the norms that come from institutions, and I think that the next phase for me, artistically, is going to be like, "What do we make? What is that lore that is ours?"
Nieves: I love that.
Gonzalez: Yeah.
Nieves: And we're going to go into it. I'm going to go through a couple of the books and a little bit about you and your mom, if you don't mind.
Gonzalez: Oh, yeah. Please. No, no, no. Let's get into it.
Nieves: Because you were talking about Olga Dies Dreaming, and I want to talk about your mom for a second. In The Atlantic, you wrote, "She cared more about fermenting a socialist revolution than raising her child."
Gonzalez: Yeah.
Nieves: Just tell me about growing up at a distance, as a daughter of someone who's so politically driven, and that was so much of an anchor in Olga Dies Dreaming, right? So, I'd love to hear you talk a little about that.
Gonzalez: Yeah. I have to be honest. I'm finishing up this memoir about social class, and I did a long call with my editor. Then, I had a follow-up call with my agent, and I was like, "I think the biggest torment of my life is that I desperately didn't want my mother to be right about a lot of her understanding of how the world works and how injustice operates." I wanted it to be a true Genesis story of like a villain, right?
Nieves: Sure.
Gonzalez: It's much easier when the villain leaves to go and follow something feckless and that you don't morally agree with. I think that, in the beginning, my youth, particularly even just picking college, right? It was really in retaliation, like my mother hated elitism. I mean, you could only imagine.
Nieves: Oh my goodness. Yeah.
Gonzalez: I mean, my mother wasn't in DSA. My mom's joke, when I did that piece, because I interviewed her for that Atlantic piece, and she was like, "They're not even real socialists." She's like, "Zohran Mamdani is cute." She thinks it's hilarious, so I think that-
Nieves: Her yardstick is just-
Gonzalez: Her yardstick is-
Nieves: is off the chart, right?
Gonzalez: It's off the charts, right? And so, I was like, "You know what?" In a dream world, her dream thing would have been, I would be like, "I'm going to go to UPR." It's like, "I'm going to move to San Juan and go to UPR." That would have been really, that is a great way to get an education. I think that I was like, no. I want the opposite, and you abandoned me, so I want these institutions to embrace me, and I want these systems to embrace me. I think, in the weird way, I was the origin of my own villain story.
I want to just say, I like nice things. I like doing nice things, but I also, when I think about why I've managed this transition well, it's because, ultimately, I was raised to believe that the character of a person is way more important than their credentials or their cash flow. I think, ultimately, as I've gone through the world, I've been like, oh. A lot more of what my mom believes is correct than incorrect.
I think it's not been helped by the fact that we've watched capitalism sort of just go so unregulated and just metastasize into something crazy, and the social safety net just get eroded, and so my mom kind of exists for me as this strange, like I feel like we're always in a cosmic dance.
Again, to go back to that generosity thing, I had always sort of just gone to parties, and if it came up, people thought it was so funny that my mom is this socialist revolutionary and that I had been a luxury wedding planner in New York, and they just thought this was really funny. And so, I was like, well, people always thought that was fascinating, and that's a great way to write a story about Puerto Rico. Then, in the book, I ended up having her have these kinds of one-sided letters, which is kind of how my mom talks to me. What I wasn't expecting was, when I was out and about talking about Olga, how many people were like, "That's how it feels with my mom. It's this one version of how she sees me.”
Nieves: Oh, yeah. A monologue.
Gonzalez: Yeah. It's a mom-o-logue.
Nieves: It's a mom-o-logue.
Gonzalez: It's a monologue, and now I like to tell her, I feel like we've come to a moral agreement about government, money, elitism, and capitalism. I think that we have a lot of pragmatic differences in terms of how we think it should be. Watch my mom listen to this, but we were talking, and like most socialists of a certain age, she will just go on and on in wax poetic about Castro and Cuba and blah, blah, blah. I had been to research for Anita De Monte recently, and I said to a friend, I was like, "I didn't have the heart to break it to her that they're letting people starve." I was like, "And we have a part." I was like, "The government here has a part in that." I was like, "But there was so much Chinese investment and Russian investment. This money is not trickling down to the people," and so I was like, "I don't even want to let my mom know that I think there's corruption happening in Cuba," because it felt like I was breaking her heart. You know what I mean?
Nieves: Sure.
Gonzalez: But on the other hand, she's also right, and our government's also starved Cuban people, so it's like nothing is quite black and white, but I now see her as somebody where, whether I wanted it to or not, it laid the moral groundwork for what I believe. I think, ultimately, the thing that I can't stop myself from always thinking about is how much dignity, and that's also, I think, a big part about Olga in all of my books. It's very difficult for me to not see us all with equal amounts of dignity, and I think that that is weirdly at odds with kind of an elite culture. There's so much.
Nieves: It's built on its exceptionalism, right?
Gonzalez: It's built on exceptionalism, and so then that, therefore, has to somewhat dehumanize and devalue people that are not exceptional, and so I think that, more than anything, I feel like that has been the fundamental thing that I've realized, at the end of the day, I'm my mother's daughter, and that's annoying sometimes.
Nieves: And it's an interesting thing. Your mom sounds much more like an ideologue, right?
Gonzalez: Yeah.
Nieves: I mean, it's a little bit, right? But yet there are these unwavering values that are really important, around how you see a collective versus the individual, right?
Gonzalez: That's right.
Nieves: I want to ask you one last question, because I mean, I could go through the list. We have Oprah Daily, USA Today, People Magazine, Harpers Bazaar. I could go on and on and on and on, Publishers Weekly. Everyone is looking forward to The Last Night in Brooklyn, right? There's pressure, right? That's a lot of pressure, but if anybody can meet that, it's you. I'm not worried about that. What's it like to have so many eyes on you as a writer right now? And tell us a little bit, give us a taste of the book.
Gonzalez: Well, I don't like to say any book is my favorite, but I had a lot of fun writing this one, and that means a lot. I think that I wanted to document a time and a place where people of color in particular, Black and Latino people in particular, felt really optimistic, and where we had been able to kind of blindly coast off of the fight for civil rights that our parents had done and really take advantage of the capitalistic opportunities that this might have brought to us, and where it really felt like if you made enough money, you could be insulated from a lot of bias and all of these other things. It was a time where everybody was biding-
Nieves: Aspirations were high.
Gonzalez: Aspirations were high.
Nieves: Even during a crack epidemic.
Gonzalez: Yes.
Nieves: Think about it. During AIDS, right?
Gonzalez: Yes, during AIDS. I think in this time, that ops time, when you had Obama running and you had Hillary running, it just felt like, "Oh my gosh. We are on the precipice of a new world order," and we didn't know all the things that this was going to set in motion, that the recession was going to set in motion, that white resentment was going to set in motion of an Obama presidency. I wanted to take that time of pure optimism. It didn't even intentionally, like originally, I was like, I also wanted to kind of also turn a lens on elitism within our communities.
Nieves: Yes.
Gonzalez: And that was kind of why I took this Gatsby model. And there was a little bit also that I'm a little tired, if I'm being really honest, of getting “othered” as an American writer. I don't want to say I'm always proud to be a Latina writer, but I think-
Nieves: But you're a writer who happens to be Latina.
Gonzalez: I actually feel like I'm such an American writer, because it's like, I don't know, I'm a New Yorker.
Nieves: Absolutely.
Gonzalez: I always am like, "We're the quintessential American city, right?" It's like I'm a New Yorker, and so I think I also was eager to take something on that's very American and kind of challenge people to tell me that I'm not an American writer.
Nieves: That's right. That's right.
Gonzalez: I remember with Olga, I kept getting put on panels about immigration, and I was like, "Minus the Russian. Show me the immigrant in this book."
Nieves: But I don't understand that. Yeah, yeah.
Gonzalez: But it's just like this kind of weird, lazy Latino shorthand. You know what I mean?
Nieves: Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
Gonzalez: So, I was excited for the challenge, and also artistically to do something new, because it's my first book that's won POV.
Nieves: Yes, yes.
Gonzalez: And it was funny, because you think complicated is somehow more my instinct, and I was like, "Let's just go with a simple story, and can you keep it entertaining?"
And so, I'm excited for people to get all of that, and I think something I learned from weddings, I always say everything I learned, I learned from weddings. You would have the richest people in the country hire you for something, and if their third-aunt removed had an AC vent on her shoulders and complained, the whole thing was over, because she was the aunt that everybody's opinion mattered around, and suddenly it was a terrible wedding. I learned that you had to sort of decide, is it good to you?
Nieves: Yes.
Gonzalez: And so, I don't send it to the publisher to put into the system and start doing all the formatting and everything until I feel it's good to me. And then I can hope that, because I feel again like we're in connection, me and the readership and me and my readers, that they'll find merit in this because it's part of this journey that I feel I'm taking them on. I don't think I could have written this book, had Anita not been Anita, had Olga not been Olga.
Nieves: That's right.
Gonzalez: It's the next phase in a journey, but I'm mainly excited. I'm mainly excited. Every year it's harder and harder to publish books. It's harder and harder to get attention, get people's eyes on a book, but I am comforted by the fact that so many women want to spend time with these women, and then I get to talk to them about it.
Nieves: Yeah, yeah. And this is about all women.
Gonzalez: It's about all women.
Nieves: And men want to spend time with these women too, right?
Gonzalez: Yes, yes.
Nieves: And I think that's the other part too, which is, I was thinking about that too, and it was so funny because I was like, "Oh. A Latina writer." I was like, "No, she's a writer."
Gonzalez: Yeah, yeah.
Nieves: Who does it have to be Latina? And I mean, that doesn't mean that that's not an-
Gonzalez: I don't find it to be a pejorative, but I think it's-
Nieves: I don't either.
Gonzalez: I did a talk with the-
Nieves: But it's always about trying to put you in a box.
Gonzalez: It's putting you in a box. That's right. I just say, I was like, the one thing that I never feel limited by is I love when I go to Europe and I see the books, and I'm on a feminist writer bookshelf.
Nieves: I love it. Oh my God.
Gonzalez: That, I love, because I was like, "If you want to encapsulate me and put me around these women inspiring rage, I love it."
Nieves: Okay, and my other, one of my favorite moments, and then we'll end with something that's on your bookshelf that you're loving right now, but before we do that, you should know, I go to Oxford a few times a year, we do these retreats and things like that, and so Blackwell's famous bookstore.
Gonzalez: Yes.
Nieves: Your book was right there and center, right there. I had a moment when I walked by it, as someone who's probably given way too much money to Blackwell's, and I got a bit emotional about it.
Gonzalez: Oh my goodness.
Nieves: Because it was just beautiful, so I just want you to know that, so you are right up there.
Gonzalez: Thank you. Thank you.
Nieves: And you got on their list of one of the best, so I'm just saying. Thank you. So, just saying that. Xochitl, thank you.
Gonzalez: Thank you.
Nieves: Thank you for being you.
Gonzalez: Thank you for being you.
Nieves: Thank you for being a treasure. We can't wait to support it. Your next book, The Last Night in Brooklyn, I can't wait, and-
Gonzalez: Thank you. Thank you.
Nieves: ... Wishing you the best.
Gonzalez: Thank you. Thank you, and I love that you're doing this. Thank you so much.
Nieves: Besos. Thank you.
Gonzalez: Bye. Besos.
Nieves: Bye-bye. Take care.
Credits: Thank you for listening!
At The Junction, we reflect on the moments that make us — with today’s most impactful leaders. The show was created and hosted by me, Lisette Nieves, and produced by LWC Studios.
This show is available everywhere you listen to podcasts, and on YouTube. I encourage you to share video and audio episodes by linking to them on social media, websites, and by sharing them in your online affinity groups. Our executive editor is Juleyka Lantigua. Michelle Baker is our senior producer. Alyson Rich and Cesar Ventura provided administrative support. CDM Studios is our live recording location. Our theme song is “La Juntura Cultural,” arranged by Randy Seriguchi, Jr. and D'Artanian Woodard, produced by Randy Seriguchi, Jr., and recorded by Farmacy Studio.
For more information and episode transcripts, visit Lisette-Nieves.com. If you’d like to reach out, please email us at Hello@LWCStudios.com.