Lisette’s Take: “I'm so excited to platform her work here because we know there are incredible leaders like her around the world that are doing levels of innovation at understanding systems and providing solutions or an alternative in a way that makes enormous change. And that's why there's no greater gift than seeing someone like her doing this work in New York.” To hear all episodes and learn more about Lisette Nieves, visit Lisette-Nieves.com
Gisele Castro has always been a leader with a purpose much bigger than the impactful organization she helped found and now leads, exalt, where she and her team transform young people’s lives through education, employment opportunities and criminal justice reform. Her work ensuring equity in justice for court-involved youth is remarkable, and now she’s poised to replicate the exalt model nationally. What’s more, her personal story reveals why she was able to rise to meet this moment. Gisele has a Doctorate of Education, in Leadership and Innovation, from NYU’s Steinhardt School, holds a Master’s of Public Administration in non-profit management, and studied at the graduate level at Oxford University, where she researched U.S. and U.K. juvenile justice systems.
Lisette Nieves: Hi everyone. Welcome to the Junction podcast. This is Lisette Nieves and this is where we get to talk to people about key moments in their lives, where they had to pivot, where they had to transition, where they found themselves, they found their direction they found their calling. Um, I'm excited to have our next guest, which is Dr. Giselle Castro. She is the president and CEO of Exalt. She's gonna walk us through. what Exalt is about, but most importantly, we're gonna have a conversation about what are pivot moments in our lives that have led to the choices we've made, and what do we do right now, in 2025 to take care of ourselves so that we can have impact, and really support the young people that she works with in 2026. All right, everyone, good morning and welcome, Giselle Castro.
Castro: Well, thank you. Good morning, and thank you so much Dr. Neve, for having me, and congratulations on your podcast. The Junction is not your first one, so I'm excited to be here and have a conversation with you.
Nieves: Great. Well, let's get you warmed up a little bit. Okay. Let's go right into a couple of things. What is the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning?
Castro: Oh, the first thing that I do always is that I sit up and I pray.
Nieves: Okay. All Right. So there we do that. And so what was the last text you sent?
Castro: The last text that I sent was to my sister and to my cousin. Sad BOGOs, uh, last night. And then this morning I woke up and I receive messages, you know, from them.
Nieves: Okay, great. And so what do you do to center yourself?
Castro: I do a. And it depends on how I'm feeling. I have had this practice for quite some time. I call it listening, so centering myself, could be taking a walk, centering myself, could be a call to my mother. Centering myself could be just sitting down and literally taking deep breath or centering myself. Could be going to a space where I know that I will receive the right
Nieves: Thank you for that, Giselle. And so the reason I really started with those. is because I actually wanna get into the work that you do. Right?
You work with justice-involved young people, and I want you to talk to us about what is Exalt, but it's so important how we show up in this work and that we're centered and that we're present to do our best work.
So walk me through what is Exalt. And what brought you to Exalt?
Castro: So Exalt is, I will describe it this way, to you and to the audience. It's a philosophy, it's an idea, is a concept. It's a true fundamental belief that all young people, they know their purpose in life and they could thrive. But specifically working with justice system involved youth.
They haven't had exposures and opportunity. So at the core, fundamentally working with young people, ages 15, 15 through 19, adolescents. Supporting them, resolving their court cases. And that could run from Family Court, criminal court, Supreme Court academic support that is completing their high school degree, GED, going off to college and career exploratory opportunity is through a paid internship model, which then leads to a second internship, vocational track and into career.
Nieves: And So I wanna slow us down a bit. Because I think this is important. I'm outing myself as not just a fan of exult. I get to chair the board. Yeah.
Castro: Yes, you do.
Nieves: So I'm really honored because I get to have this conversation with you. But I get to see the work you get to do in transformation. So you say it in passing really quickly, but what does it mean to exit a case, to expunge a case.
Castro: Walking in to a courtroom for many young people with Exalt feels like a miracle. We created a court advocacy model, knowing and understanding that within our family court system, unfortunately the family court, they need to see substantial progress before they make a decision in terms of an outcome of a young person.
So they're looking at their education background. They're looking at their family dynamics to then determine whether a young person could stay home, whether a young person is not a threat to the public, and whether a young person can actually make substantial change within criminal court. Supreme Court, they're just the charges.
It's typically, you know, the background's information is a moment in time, and that moment in time could be an error that a young person committed. But then you have the judges and the das who are charged with public safety trying to make a determination whether this individual, this young [00:05:00] person, should be at the same, you know, conversation like release.
So the organization took on a model which works with the judiciary and says, we will be able to provide meaningful services to a young person to tell a objective narrative. And that is the progress that the young person is doing, but also a plan forward.
Nieves: so this is what I particularly get so inspired about, and I want our listeners to understand, which is that Exalt really becomes the intermediary that becomes the arm that the judicial system trusts to say what could be the next steps for a young person.
Castro: Exactly.
Nieves: Because we know that if, particularly in juvenile court, if there isn't a parent or someone else there, what are they, two or three times as likely to serve hardship penalties, right?
Exalt serves all these purposes. To make sure a young person has an opportunity. I think the other thing about Exalt and I wanna get to what got you to Exalt.
Castro: Mm-hmm.
Nieves: You and I are both Bocos from New York. We could say it, right? We are. We're bocos from New York. we really
Castro: We are.
Nieves: We are. Here, you're from the Bronx.
Castro: Mm-hmm. And you're from Brooklyn?
Nieves: I'm from Brooklyn,
Castro: yes.
Nieves: And we were raised in the stop-and-frisk era.
Castro: Mm-hmm.
Nieves: Right. So many of our particularly male peers, we saw do time, right, for minor infractions. I would say it wasn't an Exalt.
Castro: Correct.
Nieves: What brought you to this work, right? Because I, you know, I know what brought me to caring deeply about it.
Castro: iMm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.
Nieves: And it was stop and frisk to be quite honest. Right. Um, But what brought you to Exalt? Why, why did this become something that you knew you needed to lead?
Castro: I'm going to explain it in two ways because I, depending who I'm speaking to, I'm speaking to you, you understand a lot.
But I'm also am speaking to a group of people who may not understand the complexities. Early on, I wanted to be a journalist. I really believe that I would be traveling the world covering media, and it was at the age, my brother was 14 and I was, eight years old. He was shocked. And I remember walking in and you remember that we didn't have cell phones.
We used to have That's right. That you know that telephone and my mom screaming and we didn't know whether he was gonna make it or not and live well. Later on I found out that he was shot by his best friend at an early age. I knew there's something wrong here. Later on, like many right now, research begins to show that people who have this type of trauma, they're [00:08:00] nervous, they're fearful.
Something else happens later on, my brother was arrested, but I remember that he was always in the gifted and talented classes. Brilliant. I would say that of all conversations that I could have, he's the one who inspires me intellectually, even today. So I knew that there was something wrong with the system.
I didn't understand poverty because on Sundays, we still have this practice where my family comes together. There was dinner, you know, this performance of poems, reading, writing, and my dad used to say something that I hear many of our families say.
I may have money for my daughters to go to college. I may need to have money for my, for his eldest son, for either prison or the cemetery.
And, you know, working, living in a home where the women are strong. Yes. And we didn't have answer to a judicial system. I used to find them brilliant. I still find them brilliant. I felt deeply that I had a calling to understand, how do systems work in this country?
Nieves: That's right.
Castro: But then also, how is it that we offer systems and opportunity to ensure that many families are not suffering the way that I saw my mother, my father, my brother suffer?
And also the collateral consequence. I knew at an early age, 'cause my grandmother died at the age of 106, and the coffee table conversations that we would have would be consequence.
Castro: yes. In a familia Andra, which means like the entire family would suffer. And I believe fundamentally that there is a way to create a pathways for, what people don't discuss, is for family to really heal. And when families heal, communities heal. So then I did the standard thing. I went to John Jay College. I wrote a concert paper. I graduated, I went to Pace University, I went to Oxford. It was an argument that I was having, how is it there are no models to support young people who are impacted by the juvenile justice system, but more importantly understand the system itself. Yeah. And so that the system can then give fair sentencing?
Nieves: you know, what a powerful model, right? Mm-hmm.
Castro: Mm-hmm. Because,
Nieves: and the narrative.
Castro: Mm-hmm.
Nieves: Because I could also think through pivot points in my life, you know, people always say you can't learn from other people's mistakes. I don't believe that. you actually, I can think of quite a few names of incredibly talented people,
Castro: Mm-hmm.
Nieves: Who we had to support through commissary in other ways. And that's not the way it would've been that we wanted.
Castro: orrect.
Nieves: So thanks for sharing that pivot moment, because it was a point that made a huge difference.And what I also feel so profound about that story is that it's also about the narrative out there is that particularly for those who are incarcerated and have experienced family trauma. We, we all sit that, right? Mm-hmm. there isn't love there.
Castro: Mm-hmm.
Nieves: There's enormous love.
Castro: Mm-hmm. Yes.
Nieves: And there's enormous weight that the collective family carries for the consequences.
Nieves: One of the things you do about Exalt, and this is where I'm going to get a little geeky into Some of the research. The research, and we've seen this regarding you, love it because you, you did a brilliant,, doctoral work of what you receive distinction.And so congratulations for that.
Castro: Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for creating the program, the doctoral program, which I know that you always pause and you look at me and it's like, why is she thanking me? But thank you. For ensuring that I had an opportunity and so many doctors and leaders and for creating, um, a real leadership pipeline.
Nieves: Giselle, thank you for saying that. Yeah, I was, I'm really, it's actually one of the beautiful things that I've been able to achieve. I co-founded the doctorate in Leadership and innovation at NYU Steinhardt, And I co-founded it with Dr. Anderson. And I believe even to this day, we may be the only doctorate where two people of color found it. I'm still inspired by it, but you know,
Castro: it's, I'm proud, immensely proud, and that you're leaving legacy that outlives you.
Nieves: Well, Thank you. Thank you. That means a lot. Though this isn't about me. I'm gonna go back to you right now. But, it is, but it is. No, but I, I do like, I, I think what's important about it too is that why we built the program.
And why, and why I'm so excited to platform your work here is because we know there are incredible leaders around the world that are doing levels of innovation at understanding systems and providing kind of a solution. Or an alternative in a way that makes enormous change. And that's why, you know, there's no greater work than seeing someone like you doing this work in New York and seeing someone like Singapore rebuilding their entire pre-K model or seeing someone in Abu Dhabi reimagine what an apprenticeship program system is.
Right. So this is, you know, so you guys fill us too. One of the things that we think about research and what we've seen, particularly with court-involved young people, is that we say, guess what? Just as evolved young people, you got in trouble. So what are we gonna do? We're gonna isolate you.
Castro: m-hmm. We're pull you from your community. We're gonna keep you in a separate environment. This is what we're gonna do. It's almost a clinical response of isolation. And that's exactly not the developmental approach that you have. In fact, you defy all of that. Talk a little bit about like why you actually provide more exposure for young people. And tell me about that.
Castro: So, a few things. You know, when we look at our young people, I love young people, you know, by the way. Yes. And you
Nieves: to do this work.
Castro: Well, yes. You, you really do. You teenagers are expert of themselves. You ask a young person, any young person, what is it that they wanna do?
They may not have a good sense of where, where they're going, but they have a clear sense of their identity. And it is typically the adults, the starts to disrupt their pattern of thinking as, as opposed to supporting them. So I think a lot about Exalt, it operates like the Montessori model, it engages with young people knowing that they indeed have answers and also that they're entering this process as ira Sure.
You know, talks about their fear for self. Their fear for self as a 15-year-old, and especially in the court system, they're treated as an adult. They can't see exactly what a career could look like. What are their options, especially when they're burdened with so much responsibility? So the exposure that we give them is through our internship model.
We have relationships with hundreds of business sectors throughout New York City, and we're asking like lawyers at the Innocence Project who are working so. hard to vacate a sentence to mentor one of our young person. We're asking some of the higher-end art galleries in New York City to mentor our young person.
We're asking Sprouts culinary Institute, some of the executive chefs of New York City, who you know, wanna be the next Kwame of the world to mentor our young person. What it does is that it begins to disrupt a young person's way of perceiving themself. What they have been told, the limitations that people give them in a short period of time, in four months and a half, which is a 21-week cycle, where they begin to not hear that anything is possible.
They're putting it into practice. The reason why I bring up 21 weeks because we also align with the stages of change. That's right. That framework, which. suggest that if you give someone, anyone, an adult, a child, a teenager, 21 weeks of rigorous practice, their behavior change. It is embedded in their wiring of their brains.
Yeah. And intrinsically it's practice,
Nieves: It's habit forming. It's habit forming. Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's so powerful and I, I, I also have the honor of being able to have done research on Exalt.
Castro: Mm-hmm.
Nieves: Dr. Anderson and I went in and talked to the alums, and, this piece, which I think is so important, particularly for young people, isn't part of examining themselves, realizing that there are assets.
Is that they could also help heal their trauma, but their family's trauma too.
Castro: That's right.
Nieves: That is such a powerful way of building agency and sense of self.
Castro: Mm-hmm.
Nieves: It's pretty extraordinary.
Castro: It really is. And in fact,
Nieves: Every young person deserves that. Right.
Castro: They do.
Nieves: This is not just about one. one group of young people, every young person deserves that. What are you seeing and hearing about young people and the court system and what should we be doing?
Castro: So nationally, it sounds like we have some crisis. We don't. You know, we have seen that arrests indeed has gone …
Nieves: so the narrative is wrong here. We have a federal narrative that's right. criminalizing.
Castro: Correct? Right. What happens is, in terms of the national discourse, is that we have social media, we have a lot of news outlets that they wanna target and sensationalize, you know, those serious cases. So then it seems in terms of perception, that we are indeed in a crisis. Well, if you couple that with what has happened during COVID, that you have a lot of young people who are not in school, who are not engaged, not just court involved, but in across the board, young people are not engaged in school.
The perception of young people at this moment is that we don't know what to do with them. You look at also, summer youth employment, we're not hiring young people. You know, since COVID, there's not a lot of rich services, you know, for youth. So what I believe that the national discourse has to be is a collective conversation: how is it that young people in school, all of them, thrive? How do we prepare our youth and our future as opposed to what happens is a paralysis, the sense of fear that things are, um, you know, being eroded, that things are changing and our young people literally. Are offering us a blueprint. I believe that they have set more than once, that they're not trusting of systems, that they do have answers, that they can innovate.
So there's, this is a real call on our adult thinking.
Nieves: Yeah. And one of the things on the adult thinking, and this is where definitely our research overlaps, which I think is a pretty important point, is you are working with young people between 15 and 18, right? Even younger in some cases. When you think about that, that's the exact age that is locked out of internships and job opportunities. Some youth employment has become much more community college students. Think about that, right? Think about the employment market. We grapple with this romantic notion of adolescents where young people wanna work as part of their identity And yet don't have those opportunities. Right. So, couple that with feeling disaffected at school mm-hmm. And other things like that, right? So, I bring that up because. That's so important that we think about 15 to 18-year-olds. We are not giving them the opportunities to work and express themselves in ways that helps all young people.
Castro: Yes, yes, yes.
Nieves: You and I could talk for about three more days, there's no question. Right. And we just, we just scratched the surface. We haven't even gotten into leadership. We haven't gotten into all. But wanna end on something that is about leadership. And it's like, what have you learned about yourself through this journey? Why have you anchored here? Why do you remain anchored here?
Castro: One thing, and I was reflecting on this because there's so much that I could talk about, uh, and share in terms of leadership, but I've been thinking a lot about like this, uh, leadership is deliberately cultivating a network.
That is different from me and for me, leadership is learning about other whatever it but having conversation and being in dialogue with people who are thinking about the future differently than I am. And I believe that in order to become a great leader, and this is has been my takeaway. It's not that you're planning for consequences, collateral damage.
That's right. It is that it is more difficult to be a creator. Yes. Because in order to create the future for young people who are always here and present, you have to understand what are the systems, opportunities and barriers, and then who are some of the drivers. So for us at Exalt, drivers are philanthropy.
And every funder is a different funder. Every boardroom and a foundation, right? It's a different boardroom. So it's like, think about like the complexity of understanding all of those thinkings and all those strategies. Business sector, every business sector has a strategy. So replacing young people in internship, and then what tends to be constant is like the education system.
You know? It's like it, yes, it is like scoring the same, but for those of you who may not. Know this, one of the spaces that innovates and we were together as so much, and we heard, you know, some of the judiciary speak, they're innovative. However, as they're innovating mental health education, their, uh, fellows, you know, in terms of their das coming into New York City, uh, you know, to practice, you know, you have to be current.
Nieves: Well, I, yeah, and I wanna say this to you. I wanna thank you, Giselle. because. You know, Putnam, who writes a lot about community, I he talks about bridge builders And bonders, right. These two roles, you have literally created an ecosystem where you do both,
Castro: Yes.
Nieves: Where you bond the young people to a sense of cultural, professional educational identity.
Castro: Mm-hmm.
Nieves: That is not narrow, that it's broad and expansive, and you build bridges in an ecosystem to make sure that you don't do it.
Alone. So I thank you for that work.
Castro: Well, thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for everything that you have done, not just for Exalt, for me, for the organization, the community globally.
Thank you for being such a talent and such a force and uh, for those of you who want to learn, listen to podcast.
Nieves: Alright, thank you. Thank you everyone for tuning into the Junction podcast where we have the opportunity to talk to incredible leaders like you just heard from Dr. Giselle Castro.
Looking forward to having you hear more people talk through what are the points in their lives where they had to pivot, change, reimagine, build, inspire, and create. And I'm excited to have you part of the conversation as it goes forward. Thank you.
Credits: Thank you for listening!
At The Junction, we reflect on the moments that make us — with today’s most impactful leaders. The show was created and hosted by me, Lisette Nieves, and produced by LWC Studios.
This show is available everywhere you listen to podcasts, and on YouTube. I encourage you to share video and audio episodes by linking to them on social media, websites, and by sharing them in your online affinity groups. Our executive editor is Juleyka Lantigua. Michelle Baker is our senior producer. Alyson Rich and Cesar Ventura provided administrative support. CDM Studios is our live recording location. Our theme song is “La Juntura Cultural,” arranged by Randy Seriguchi, Jr. and D'Artanian Woodard, produced by Randy Seriguchi, Jr., and recorded by Farmacy Studio.
For more information and episode transcripts, visit Lisette-Nieves.com. If you’d like to reach out, please email us at Hello@LWCStudios.com.